in the meantime I can't scan the newspaper articles about this case which have pretty much been men writing one-sided articles in defense of the little piss ants. go figure.
rape incident of black woman at Duke University
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and my harddrive died and just after warranty expired. so have to take it to repair service locally.
in the meantime I can't scan the newspaper articles about this case which have pretty much been men writing one-sided articles in defense of the little piss ants. go figure.
in the meantime I can't scan the newspaper articles about this case which have pretty much been men writing one-sided articles in defense of the little piss ants. go figure.
---
The truth shall make you free. Well F that! Pay me!
The truth shall make you free. Well F that! Pay me!
MsNikaPooh,
Sorry for misinterpreting your intention.
I don't know for certain whether they are guilty or not, but from what I've read I believe that they are innocent.
My main disagreement with some of the posts on the subject is the idea that there is a formula to determine their guilt. Even though it might often be true, I don't believe that it's always true that a black women in the south would never lie in a particular situation, or that a prosecutor in these circumstances would never press charges unless the accused were guilty.
I will post some of the links over the weekend.
Best Wishes,
Dean
Sorry for misinterpreting your intention.
I don't know for certain whether they are guilty or not, but from what I've read I believe that they are innocent.
My main disagreement with some of the posts on the subject is the idea that there is a formula to determine their guilt. Even though it might often be true, I don't believe that it's always true that a black women in the south would never lie in a particular situation, or that a prosecutor in these circumstances would never press charges unless the accused were guilty.
I will post some of the links over the weekend.
Best Wishes,
Dean
Reasonable Doubt at Duke
By Ruth Marcus
Wednesday, June 28, 2006; Page A25
At the start, I presumed they were guilty. The rape charges against three members of the Duke lacrosse team sounded like a plausible case of Jocks Gone Wild. It wasn't hard to imagine that a bunch of rowdy, hard-drinking players could have crossed the line from watching a paid dancer to sexually assaulting her.
After all, these were students who had plunked down $800 for a pair of strippers and were angry that their cash had bought only a few minutes of bare flesh. The show was called off when one player asked about sex toys and "said he would use the broomstick on us," according to the second dancer.
As the two women drove off, a neighbor reported hearing one of the partygoers yell a racial insult at the African American dancers: "Hey . . . thank your grandpa for my nice cotton shirt." Later that night, another teammate wrote a disgusting e-mail about plans to kill and skin "some strippers." One of the accused, Collin Finnerty, is to stand trial here next month in an incident in which he and two high school lacrosse buddies allegedly taunted a man, saying he was gay, and then beat him.
These don't sound like young men you'd want your daughter to date.
But the more evidence that has emerged in the case, the more it appears that there is way more than reasonable doubt that the three accused committed rape.
The paucity of physical evidence; the accuser's prior unsubstantiated rape charge; her changing stories that night; sloppy and unreliable identification procedures -- any of these alone, and certainly all of them together, make it hard to understand why the prosecution is going forward and impossible to imagine that it could win a conviction.
True, much of the evidence that's emerged so far has been selectively released by defense lawyers. But after a review of court filings and other material, here's what makes me doubtful:
? There's almost no physical evidence. Two rounds of DNA testing failed to produce any evidence of semen from Duke players -- as might have been expected, given the accusation that the woman was orally, vaginally and anally penetrated, along with being choked, beaten and kicked. (DNA from one of the students, David Evans, may match material taken from the accuser's fake fingernail.) Indeed, although the prosecutor claimed the medical report found injuries consistent with sexual assault, the nurse-in-training who examined the woman found only swelling of the vaginal walls -- something that might be explained by the fact that the woman reported using a vibrator as she performed for a couple hours earlier.
? The second dancer told police that the rape charges were a "crock" and that she and the accuser had been apart for only five minutes at the party.
? The accuser made an earlier, seemingly unsubstantiated allegation of being the victim of a gang rape. She said she was attacked by three men in 1993, when she was 14, but didn't file a police report until three years later. The matter was dropped after she failed to provide a statement to the investigating officer.
? She gave six different accounts of what happened the night of the incident: She did not originally mention rape to the police when they found her in a car outside a grocery store; raised the rape allegation after being taken to a substance abuse facility; later said that "no one forced her to have sex"; and gave accounts of the alleged incident that differed in various ways, including the number of attackers and the type of assault.
? It's true, and totally understandable, that rape victims often provide inconsistent accounts. But even if a sexual assault did occur in this case, there's ample reason to question whether the right students were charged. The accuser said her attackers were named "Bret, Adam and Matt"; the indicted students are Reade, Collin and David.
Reade Seligmann's lawyer has presented evidence that during the post-midnight time frame in which the attack allegedly occurred, Seligmann called his girlfriend six times and another person twice (12:05 to 12:14); was picked up by a cab (12:19); used an ATM (12:24) and returned to his dorm (12:45). The lawyer tried to present this evidence to the prosecutor before the indictment but was rebuffed.
? In contravention of accepted practice, the photographs shown to the accuser included only members of the lacrosse team, no similar-looking "fillers." According to papers filed by David Evans's lawyer, the accuser failed to identify him in a photo lineup eight days after the party. In another test, three weeks after the incident, she selected his photo, telling investigators, "He looks like one of the guys who assaulted me, sort of." She said that she was "about 90 percent" certain but that the attacker had a mustache; Evans's lawyer says he's never had a mustache.
Perhaps there are facts yet to emerge to support Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong's continuing certitude that a rape occurred -- though the confluence of Nifong's political interests and the prosecution is itself another reason for discomfort. He brought the first charges just before a primary in which the black vote played a key role.
In an odd way, I hope Nifong's proved right, because the alternative -- that he began with a dubious case and stuck with it as it became shakier -- is so troubling. As it stands now, the case isn't expected to go to trial until spring 2007. That seems like an awfully long time to wait to find out.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01545.html
"The motion, filed by defense lawyers Kirk Osborn and Ernest Conner, said Seligmann has provided a "complete alibi" that clears him of any suspicion. It also argues that the accuser has changed her story several times and says the defense needs to know "which story is going to be presented as the 'true story.'?"
http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs ... 9/-1/State
"In the report by Durham Officer G.D. Sutton, dated in the early morning of March 14, the woman said she was one of four dancers at the party and that she was attacked by five men. The woman also said she had not been raped, according to Sutton's report."
http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs ... 5/-1/State
"On March 29, 2006, Mr. Nifong claimed to have read a medical report that, according to discovery, was not printed until March 30, 2006, or retrieved by law enforcement pursuant to Mr. Nifong's own subpoena until April 5, 2006,"
http://www.wral.com/news/9409016/news/9 ... etail.html
•Witness credibility In addition to the accuser's shifting story, her fellow dancer first told police that the allegation of rape was a "crock" but then said it might have happened while the two were apart. That shift occurred after Nifong helped reduce her bond for violating probation for a 2001 embezzling conviction. A publicist later disclosed that the woman had made contact to inquire how to "spin" the case to her advantage.
•DNA. Nifong said in March that he expected DNA taken from the team would support the accuser's account. The DNA evidence found no link to any player.
•Identification. The accuser was shown photos of only Duke lacrosse players three weeks after the party. Mixing in photos of non-suspects is considered more reliable and is recommended by the U.S. Justice Department and Durham police. The accuser also said she could more confidently identify one of the charged players if he had a moustache in the photo. His attorney says he has never had one.
•Lack of cooperation Defense attorneys say Nifong has rejected their requests to show him evidence that could clear the players, including time-stamped photos from the party that challenge the accuser's account of a 30-minute rape. He also declined players' offers to take polygraph tests.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/200606 ... sgrowshort
By Ruth Marcus
Wednesday, June 28, 2006; Page A25
At the start, I presumed they were guilty. The rape charges against three members of the Duke lacrosse team sounded like a plausible case of Jocks Gone Wild. It wasn't hard to imagine that a bunch of rowdy, hard-drinking players could have crossed the line from watching a paid dancer to sexually assaulting her.
After all, these were students who had plunked down $800 for a pair of strippers and were angry that their cash had bought only a few minutes of bare flesh. The show was called off when one player asked about sex toys and "said he would use the broomstick on us," according to the second dancer.
As the two women drove off, a neighbor reported hearing one of the partygoers yell a racial insult at the African American dancers: "Hey . . . thank your grandpa for my nice cotton shirt." Later that night, another teammate wrote a disgusting e-mail about plans to kill and skin "some strippers." One of the accused, Collin Finnerty, is to stand trial here next month in an incident in which he and two high school lacrosse buddies allegedly taunted a man, saying he was gay, and then beat him.
These don't sound like young men you'd want your daughter to date.
But the more evidence that has emerged in the case, the more it appears that there is way more than reasonable doubt that the three accused committed rape.
The paucity of physical evidence; the accuser's prior unsubstantiated rape charge; her changing stories that night; sloppy and unreliable identification procedures -- any of these alone, and certainly all of them together, make it hard to understand why the prosecution is going forward and impossible to imagine that it could win a conviction.
True, much of the evidence that's emerged so far has been selectively released by defense lawyers. But after a review of court filings and other material, here's what makes me doubtful:
? There's almost no physical evidence. Two rounds of DNA testing failed to produce any evidence of semen from Duke players -- as might have been expected, given the accusation that the woman was orally, vaginally and anally penetrated, along with being choked, beaten and kicked. (DNA from one of the students, David Evans, may match material taken from the accuser's fake fingernail.) Indeed, although the prosecutor claimed the medical report found injuries consistent with sexual assault, the nurse-in-training who examined the woman found only swelling of the vaginal walls -- something that might be explained by the fact that the woman reported using a vibrator as she performed for a couple hours earlier.
? The second dancer told police that the rape charges were a "crock" and that she and the accuser had been apart for only five minutes at the party.
? The accuser made an earlier, seemingly unsubstantiated allegation of being the victim of a gang rape. She said she was attacked by three men in 1993, when she was 14, but didn't file a police report until three years later. The matter was dropped after she failed to provide a statement to the investigating officer.
? She gave six different accounts of what happened the night of the incident: She did not originally mention rape to the police when they found her in a car outside a grocery store; raised the rape allegation after being taken to a substance abuse facility; later said that "no one forced her to have sex"; and gave accounts of the alleged incident that differed in various ways, including the number of attackers and the type of assault.
? It's true, and totally understandable, that rape victims often provide inconsistent accounts. But even if a sexual assault did occur in this case, there's ample reason to question whether the right students were charged. The accuser said her attackers were named "Bret, Adam and Matt"; the indicted students are Reade, Collin and David.
Reade Seligmann's lawyer has presented evidence that during the post-midnight time frame in which the attack allegedly occurred, Seligmann called his girlfriend six times and another person twice (12:05 to 12:14); was picked up by a cab (12:19); used an ATM (12:24) and returned to his dorm (12:45). The lawyer tried to present this evidence to the prosecutor before the indictment but was rebuffed.
? In contravention of accepted practice, the photographs shown to the accuser included only members of the lacrosse team, no similar-looking "fillers." According to papers filed by David Evans's lawyer, the accuser failed to identify him in a photo lineup eight days after the party. In another test, three weeks after the incident, she selected his photo, telling investigators, "He looks like one of the guys who assaulted me, sort of." She said that she was "about 90 percent" certain but that the attacker had a mustache; Evans's lawyer says he's never had a mustache.
Perhaps there are facts yet to emerge to support Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong's continuing certitude that a rape occurred -- though the confluence of Nifong's political interests and the prosecution is itself another reason for discomfort. He brought the first charges just before a primary in which the black vote played a key role.
In an odd way, I hope Nifong's proved right, because the alternative -- that he began with a dubious case and stuck with it as it became shakier -- is so troubling. As it stands now, the case isn't expected to go to trial until spring 2007. That seems like an awfully long time to wait to find out.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01545.html
"The motion, filed by defense lawyers Kirk Osborn and Ernest Conner, said Seligmann has provided a "complete alibi" that clears him of any suspicion. It also argues that the accuser has changed her story several times and says the defense needs to know "which story is going to be presented as the 'true story.'?"
http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs ... 9/-1/State
"In the report by Durham Officer G.D. Sutton, dated in the early morning of March 14, the woman said she was one of four dancers at the party and that she was attacked by five men. The woman also said she had not been raped, according to Sutton's report."
http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs ... 5/-1/State
"On March 29, 2006, Mr. Nifong claimed to have read a medical report that, according to discovery, was not printed until March 30, 2006, or retrieved by law enforcement pursuant to Mr. Nifong's own subpoena until April 5, 2006,"
http://www.wral.com/news/9409016/news/9 ... etail.html
•Witness credibility In addition to the accuser's shifting story, her fellow dancer first told police that the allegation of rape was a "crock" but then said it might have happened while the two were apart. That shift occurred after Nifong helped reduce her bond for violating probation for a 2001 embezzling conviction. A publicist later disclosed that the woman had made contact to inquire how to "spin" the case to her advantage.
•DNA. Nifong said in March that he expected DNA taken from the team would support the accuser's account. The DNA evidence found no link to any player.
•Identification. The accuser was shown photos of only Duke lacrosse players three weeks after the party. Mixing in photos of non-suspects is considered more reliable and is recommended by the U.S. Justice Department and Durham police. The accuser also said she could more confidently identify one of the charged players if he had a moustache in the photo. His attorney says he has never had one.
•Lack of cooperation Defense attorneys say Nifong has rejected their requests to show him evidence that could clear the players, including time-stamped photos from the party that challenge the accuser's account of a 30-minute rape. He also declined players' offers to take polygraph tests.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/200606 ... sgrowshort
wow. listening to this article confirms that people who form their own opinions are encouraged to go w/the flow instead. nothing said in the article was different from the carefully selected information released by the defense.
rape or no rape, they're still disrespectable little piss ants.
rape or no rape, they're still disrespectable little piss ants.
---
The truth shall make you free. Well F that! Pay me!
The truth shall make you free. Well F that! Pay me!
Colin Finnerty was just convicted for the assault in the Georgetown area.so now that means the stakes are higher for him in the Duke rape case as a convict. and this may make him realize the now even more seriousness of the Duke rape charges. it may even make him come forward and provide truthful information.
---
The truth shall make you free. Well F that! Pay me!
The truth shall make you free. Well F that! Pay me!
Chief: Police checking every lead in Duke probe
"Our responsibility is to investigate the case, to protect the integrity of the case, and when the time comes, provide the evidence that we've gathered in a court of law to bring about a conviction."
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/n ... 992994.htm
The police chief doesn't even pretend to be looking for the truth, no he's just looking for a conviction. No wonder his department's photo line-up was described as "pin the tail on the donkey".
"Our responsibility is to investigate the case, to protect the integrity of the case, and when the time comes, provide the evidence that we've gathered in a court of law to bring about a conviction."
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/n ... 992994.htm
The police chief doesn't even pretend to be looking for the truth, no he's just looking for a conviction. No wonder his department's photo line-up was described as "pin the tail on the donkey".
oh well. even still I have no sympathy because this could all go away if the little piss ants would become more forthcoming. obviously something happened, even to provide evidence of a rape. my guess: the coach and the players are covering. or another guess: a close friend of theirs at the party that they're also covering for.
---
The truth shall make you free. Well F that! Pay me!
The truth shall make you free. Well F that! Pay me!
read from their carefully released versions, or from the DA?
how come w/all the stories the little piss ants have been carefully placing w/in the media, a story of their account of what happened in that frat house hasn't been carefully leaked too?
and what about a carefully released explanation of the hate email and racial hate comments too?
how come w/all the stories the little piss ants have been carefully placing w/in the media, a story of their account of what happened in that frat house hasn't been carefully leaked too?
and what about a carefully released explanation of the hate email and racial hate comments too?
---
The truth shall make you free. Well F that! Pay me!
The truth shall make you free. Well F that! Pay me!